Energy and Healing: Part 1

On February 13, 2021, I posted an interview with don Juan Nuñez del Prado and don Ivan [don Juan’s son] titled “Interview About Perceiving Energy.” After going through my transcripts of many of our recent conversations, I found that there is quite a bit of material scattered here and there in different conversations about energy and healing. So, I thought I would pull together some of that material into a three-part interview. Fellow paqo and teacher of Andean mysticism Christina Allen was also part of these discussions, and her questions for don Juan and don Ivan are included here along with mine.

Joan: Let’s talk about energy and healing. What is it a paqo is doing as a healer?

Don Juan: When you are a healer, what you are trying to use is your personal power. To be a healer is not a training. It’s the practical use of the power you have achieved before [during your development]. When you become a healer, you take the whole responsibility [for the healing session], through your personal power, in yourself.

Don Ivan: The very definition of personal power is the sum of your capacities and skills. So, it’s all your munay, all your llank’ay and all your yachay together, plus your connections, which means all possible help you can find around you, crystallized around you and then flowing through yourself. That’s personal power. And for that, all your connections count. Not only your family history, your collective history, your group, your religion, the Apus, all the spirits, Pachamama, Wiraqocha—everything. In the moment of a healing, you become a channel for all the connections fromIMG_4436 compressed your life. That’s your personal power.

Joan: Is there a structured process a paqo typically uses in a healing?

Don Juan: What I saw are four processes: One is hucha miqhuy. If you are a healer, probably the first thing you would like to do with your clients when they arrive is a very big hucha miqhuy, to make a deep connection with your client, because this is very important. Another is saminchakuy, a pichay that you do with your misha on your client. The third is saiwachakuy, which you also do with the misha. It’s hoqari, a pulling up, or a kallpachi, a reinforcement [of the client’s energy/sami]. And the fourth process is animu waqyai, the soul retrieval if you want to call it that. These are the four ways in which you perform healings.

Don Ivan: [In other discussions] we have talked about how don Benito healed, and how we heal, because we learned from him. If you take it analytically, you will go through several steps. The first step is to create a connection with your patient. This can be done through trust, because they trust you; it can be done through hucha miqhuy, making the deep connection. This connection even has a name in medicine. It’s called rapport. This bond between you and your client is actually what allows a healing to take place. For that there is a lot of talking involved: you need to scan the person by talking, trying to decide what the problem is. And when you decide what the problem is, you ask for feedback. You check with the person: “I am seeing this. Is this what you are feeling too? Is this correct? Is this what we need to address?” Then you work together to heal it, to fix it. That’s a lot of talking, but the connection is the most important thing, the most critical thing. And then after that, you address the problem with anything you want: cleaning, empowering, the animu waqyai, the collecting of [a part of] the soul. Whatever you want. Some people use a coca leaf reading, to see what the problem is. We don’t do that.

After using the healing techniques that you know and think are right . . . then we and don Benito used one more step. We always ask the person to take action. We advise the person to make a little ritual by themselves to take control of their own healing, in certain ways to catalyze the healing. So, to make a little ritual, a little offering, maybe with candles or making a k’intu, or something. We always ask the person to take some action in order to take responsibility for their healing. Some people will do it, and some people will not. They may return back [for additional healing], and the first thing you are going to ask is, “Did you do what I told you to do?” It’s always like that—that process. You build a connection, do your healing, ask the person to do something to take responsibility for their healing, and then you start all over again! That’s the cycle of the healing.

Don Juan: Something that is very, very important is what happens when you become really familiar with the levels [of consciousness], when you start to perceive the levels. At a certain point, you are going to perceive what is first-, second-, third-, fourth-level person. This is an important teaching of my master [don Benito Qoriwaman] . . . don Benito started by working with the client and giving him the whole benefit of the doubt. He started by dealing with him as if he were his equal: he dealt with him as if the person was at the fourth level. Then, if the person was not able to engage at that level, don Benito came down a level, to the third level. If the person is still not able to connect, he came down don Benito  Qoriwamananother level to the second. And if not that, he even would come down to the first. The practical aspect is always working at the level [of consciousness] your client is at, but always starting at the fourth.

Joan: What would that look like? How would you approach your client from the fourth, and then come to the third, or lower levels? What kinds of things would you do?

Don Juan: I would say to my client [treating him/her as fourth level], “Okay, take three coca [or other kind of] leaves, go in front of Mount Shasta [or turn in that direction] and blow. You are going to feel the feedback of Mount Shasta [its ayni] and you are going to be healed.” Then your client might start to argue, “I am feeling so bad. You know I am suffering.” Okay, then you tell them to do something else [come down to treat them at the third level of consciousness]. “You are going to make a half despacho.” And if the client starts to argue again, you come down another level and tell him he must make and offer a complete despacho. If he continues arguing that this is not going to be enough to heal him, then [coming down to the first level] send them to do a ritual that lasts the whole night, with smoke or palo santo cleaning himself, pulling a blanket over himself and filling it with the smoke, and so on. If that isn’t enough, if that doesn’t work, then the extreme healing, which was used by my master, is to have the person dig a hole in the ground and get in it and fill it up to the neck and spend the whole night there to try to make a connection with Pachamama. If a client feels that, then you can move up [the levels] again. Make the adjustment for your client, but never start by taking for granted that your client is at a lower level than you.

Joan: One of the things you told me once was that when someone came to don Benito for healing he would first ask, “Is this person for my hand?” Meaning that don Benito asked himself if he was the right healer for this client. That’s not a mindset common to Western healing or medicine, or even common among energy healers. For the most part, doctors or healers usually think they can handle any client, see any client who comes to them. Would you speak to that please?

Don Juan: That is a mindset not only of Western healers, but other healers, Indian healers, Eastern healers . . . they think that everyone is for them. For my master [don Benito], it was absolutely clear that if you have a disease for a doctor, he sent you to a doctor first. If you have pneumonia, he is going to send you to a doctor and you are going to have an antibiotic shot. And then you are going to return to don Benito. If you have a broken bone, he is going to send you to a doctor to help you with that and then you can return to him. He was focused on something that we can call the psychological side of the problem, or the spiritual side of the problem. If you have something related to the rational side of medicine [the physical], he put it aside and sent you to the doctor.

Don Ivan: That’s good advice for all of you. Don Benito was super clear about that. He would say that if you have a broken bone and you need a cast, he will not even touch you if you don’t get the cast first. As a paqo we have to be absolutely clear that we are not medical doctors. We don’t do that kind of healing. We are healers of the soul. That is our part, unless you are at the fifth level [the level of consciousness associated with infallible healing]. You can only think in those terms if you are fifth level, and we know there are no fifth-level healers around yet. In the meantime, let medcial doctor - Pixabaythe doctor do his job and you stay as the soul doctor, which is what the paqo is. Don’t overlap your duties and responsibilities. That is not your part.

Joan: Thank you. I think that is important for people to hear: to not reject science and Western medicine, because physical healing and energetic healing are different but complementary domains. We are yanantin: physical beings and energetic/spiritual beings.

Don Ivan: The fourth level is about being able to put things together! Of course, as a patient you can do the energy healing, you can do the soul retrieval, but you also do the casting, the antibiotic. You do both. You take everything, but don’t choose between the two. It is not either-or. It’s both. . . And if something doesn’t help you, look for more things. You keep adding. Third-level thinking is choosing between white or black, right or wrong, separating things. Fourth-level thinking is about putting things together. If you have resources, use them all.

Don Juan: I said [before we began recording this session] that I am so happy today. [He got his second Covid vaccination shot on this day.] Because a lot of people who are reluctant about science, about Western medicine, are not learning a lesson. They need to take their vaccine, which is made using rational resources.

The same thing—if you have something, if you are really sick, the first thing you need to do is go to the doctor, the medical doctor. This is my advice.

Don Ivan: Sometimes we’re a bit heavy on that advice with our clients [and students], but they will remember what we say because we are strong in our statements in that direction.

Joan [Actual question is from a student]: When you were just talking about don Benito asking if this was for his hand, obviously I can’t set a bone, but is there also a component where I ask if this client is for my hand as someone I am supposed to work with in an energetic and spiritual way? Maybe we just aren’t a good fit. Could you further clarify that?

Don Ivan: When you talk about something not being for your hands, it means it is out of your power. You don’t have the capacity to heal that. Or you don’t have the capacity to build a connection with that person in order to heal that. Our rule, what we always do with ourselves, we always take responsibility. When you are going to make a declaration like that, or when you make a decision like that [to not accept a client], we say, “It is not under my power. I cannot help you with this.” We have to recognize we have limited power and some things are under our power and some things are not. And this is the best way to do it in terms of ayni. Don’t create false expectations in your client. That’s not good for your own ayni! Don’t make people waste time! If you cannot help them, just let them go. They will try something else, see someone else. So, maybe that person can heal, but you cannot do it. Our rule is that we always put it on ourselves: we are not powerful enough, it’s not under our power. That’s best for your own ayni. That’s the best way to do it.

Don Juan: There is something else here, too. If you cannot heal something, it’s not because your client has that karma, it’s not the will of God. If you cannot heal him, it’s because you don’t have enough personal power. The responsibility for healing is the responsibility of the healer! To say [or think] about one of your clients, “Oh, you have enormous karma! Because of that I cannot heal you.” You are making the situation of the person worse. Or if you say, “You don’t have enough faith.” Or, “It’s not the will of God.” It’s worse for them. If a person comes to you with a terrible disease, you are putting something else on his shoulders because you are telling him has terrible karma or whatever or that God is not willing to help him. This is a bad way to deal with them. And of course ayni is ayni: if you do that kind of thing with your clients, the universe will do the same kind of thing to you.

As a healer don’t take responsibility for those things you really are in ignorance about. Someone has pneumonia, they need a shot of antibiotics. We are not denying the healing power of the energy. When you flow the living energy in yourself or your client, you are reinforcing their vital processes, which could eventually heal them. But don’t ever say, “I am going to heal you.” Eventually, you may be able to heal even terminal cancer, but until you are at the fifth level, where you can be sure you will have results, don’t make that statement. Don’t allow your client to think you can heal him of everything, because you cannot.

That’s why I prefer to be a teacher! I prefer to teach you, to allow you to grow by yourself, to become your own healer. I am not denying the power or vocation of people who want to be healers for others, but my first priority is show you how you can grow and become your own healer. To become a paqo is to become a healer. And of course, if you are a good paqo the first thing you are going to do is to heal yourself.

Don Ivan: Another part of your question was about if paqos get sick what can they do to heal themselves. Of course, you can do things for yourself: do saminchakuy, hucha miqhuy, etc., but it’s also advisable that from time to time you go to a healer yourself. So you go to another paqo, another psychologist, another therapist to help you with that, because if you work as a healer, there are always going to be little things that you are not going to see, not be able to fix in yourself, and somebody else will have to take care of you. It’s very healthy and advisable [as a healer] to take the help of a healer from time to time. You cannot handle everything.

Two Ways to Understand Hucha

In a recent conversation with don Juan and don Ivan, they elaborated on the topic of hucha, and, as always, I gained a deeper appreciation for the energy dynamics of the Andean tradition. But I was also surprised by some new information they mentioned during the discussion: there is hucha in nature! I had always heard from them that nature is comprised only of sami. That’s what I learned, and that’s what I teach. But they went into a nuance that clarifies the nature of hucha. This short blog post explains.

Our discussion was about sami and hucha as a spectrum of the movement of kawsay. Kawsay’s nature is to move, and sami represents the top of the spectrum, the light living energy. Sami is kawsay moving in its most refined and unimpeded form. Sami as light living energy refers not to visible light, but to density, to a lightness of substance, a weightlessness. The explanatory term the paqos used to describe sami was llanthu kawsay, and llanthu means “shadow.” So “light” living energy—sami—is like a shadow in that it is absolutely weightless. The spectrum then moves down in motion (getting slower) and in density (gaining weightiness or becoming heavier) to hucha. Hucha is sami, just in a slower, denser, and heavier form. So sami and hucha are not oppositional concepts or energy dynamics, but relative.

When we talk about hucha, we usually—and until now only—referred to it in relation to human beings. We are the only creatures to create hucha. We artificially, if you will, impact the flow of sami to slow it down. Hucha is a consequence of young corn plants Pixabay-4803128_1920the lack of integrity and congruity in our three human powers, and especially is a consequence of our emotions, particularly our unconscious, “shadow” impulses. But don Juan and don Ivan explained that hucha also is, in fact, an aspect of nature as part of the natural cycle of life. Here’s what they mean.

Nature is comprised only of sami, yet there is a natural cycle of life during which the life-force energy declines, or slows, until it ceases. That’s what we call death. The cycle is one of life arising, persisting for a period, then withering, and finally dying. This is a descending or diminishing energy process, according to don Benito, that can be thought of as an increaseRipe corn-Pixabay 917354_1920 of hucha. Hucha increases as sami decreases, as life moves through the natural cycle of arising and ceasing. (We can say the same is true of human life in terms of our physical bodies, of course, but how we understand hucha in relation to human beings also differs qualitatively, as I will soon explain.)

Don Juan said that to explain this aspect of hucha, don Benito used the example of a cornstalk. It grows, flourishes and produces ears of corn, and then it yellows, withers, and dies. This process is one of the slowing of the animating kawsay, or the lightness of sami. Seen in the converse, it is an increase in hucha. Hucha, then, is part of the natural cycle of life and death. I had never heard of hucha used in this context before, and it added a beautiful depth to mynew plant among dying corn plants-Pixabay 3696980_1920 understanding of sami and hucha as expressions of kawsay.

When we humans do saminchakuy, we give our hucha to the earth. This is exactly what happens in this natural process as well. Ayni is still operative, because what dies disintegrates into the earth, and Mother Earth composts it back into something life-giving: fertile soil in which new plants can thrive, food for ants and insects, etc. Mama Allpa transforms that hucha back into sami: she speeds the slow sami back up to its most refined form. What was static is again in motion.

Hucha, though, is understood differently in relation to the energy dynamics of human beings, and only human beings. We are self-aware, we use choice and will, we can both be in ayni and out of ayni. It’s when we are out of ayni that we create hucha. We are the only creatures who can create hucha, who can purposefully (although often unconsciously) slow down or block sami.  The emphasis is on the word “create.” We—through our lack of ayni, our incoherent and unconscious emotions, the loss of integrity in our three human powers, and our lack of clarity of intent—block or slow sami to create hucha for ourselves (and potentially for others). We create it through our personal energy dynamics where it didn’t exist before and where it doesn’t “need” to be. This hucha is not something we just touch in nature, we generate it. In this way, our hucha upsets the harmony of nature. It is, in this sense, outside of nature.

Seeing hucha in these two ways not only deepens our understanding of hucha, but it can help us to better understand how we both fit into the natural energetic cycle and how we are above or beyond it because we can create hucha where none existed—which is why it is so useful for us to do saminchakuy on a regular basis. I am reminded of something Samuel Beckett once wrote: “The creation of the world did not take place once and for all time, but takes place every day.” That’s true both in nature and in ourselves.

Free Access Extended to May 9: Global Shamanic Dreamkeepers Summit

Shamanic Dreamkeepers Copy 2 (1)

The Shamanic Dreamkeepers Summit is a free online event featuring 30+ extraordinary presenters – from ancient indigenous wisdom to evolving new approaches, powerful inspiration, tools and practices from healers with diverse traditions and backgrounds.

I’m delighted to be part of this lineup! 

It has been a treat to share a message of how to dream in a world using tools, practices, wisdom, and power that have worked for thousands of years… for your transformation and healing… and for the planet.

Registrations continued to flow in even late into the evening yesterday.

In response, my event co-hosts (Linda Fitch and Renee Baribeau) are excited to share that the free viewing period has been extended through Sunday night, May 9th. That gives you the entire weekend to register if you haven’t, and experience all the rich, wisdom and messages from the amazing and generous speakers.

Again, if you haven’t already, please REGISTER NOW and get immediate access to ALL four days of the Shamanic Dreamkeepers Summit presentations and bonuses through midnight PST on Sunday, May 9.

Registration link: lindalfitch.ontraport.com/t?orid=15816&opid=19

I look forward to sharing my message with you.
Joan Parisi Wilcox

PS: And don’t worry if you don’t have time to watch it all. Right now, for a super reasonable price, you can purchase a recording of the full summit program, including audio and videos and ALL the bonus material each presenter so graciously shared. Then you can binge watch or listen when it is convenient for you!

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Interview about Willka: Part 2

Joan: Continuing our discussion of willka. . . As a metaphor, other traditions focus on the white light, on radiating the energy of all visible light frequencies, which results in radiating white light. But for me the power of the Andean tradition is that it is focused on the exact opposite energy dynamic. Before you can radiate all frequencies, you have to be able to freely absorb all frequencies—without blocking anything. The Andean focus is on being a perfect absorber of energy.

Don Ivan: Absolutely.

Joan: Well, the perfect absorption of all the frequencies of visible light, again using the visible light spectrum as a Joan's mullu chunpismetaphor, is the color black. For us, that is the black light energy, or willka. It moves down our spines and creates the yana chunpi [black energy belt], filling the siki ñawi [mystical eye] at the root of the body. Talk more about actually working the willka energy of the siki, moving it up on what we said previously was like an evolutionary scale.

Don Ivan: We use the mullu khuyas [stones used for weaving the four chunpis] in the Chunpi Away karpay. We use those khuyas as our raw material [for weaving the chunpis]. Then by pulling up the energy [from the siki ñawi/yana chunpi] and making all of the other chunpis, you are going to be developing that energy, tuning it, making it rise higher and higher.

Don Juan: Higher and more vertical.

Don Ivan: You start at the ground, which is the base for everything, and then you go higher. The two most important parts of your psyche are your feelings and your thoughts, but they are not possible if you don’t have a body. So that’s the scale. Feelings and thoughts are the top energies, but our Andean scale is upside down in terms of power. The very top [of the energy power hierarchy] is at the siki ñawi, and the willka that is there is the lowest frequency of energy but the most powerful.

Don Juan: We [understood all of this] basically as a result of practice, of weaving the belts of hundreds of people. After doing that, sometimes you discover you have the whole thing as a protocol. How do you start? What do you do [in the karpay of weaving the chunpis]? You start at the top [of the body/head] and pull in the cosmic energy and then you come down the spine using material cords—the spine is the material. You have connected the metaphysical with human matter. Then you absorb the grounding power of green [earth energy] and pull it up, and you merge them [cosmic and earth energies] together. You are merging the top and bottom. You are becoming the absorber. You are, we could say, becoming the black cord. Then you start to come up again [create the chunpis] at the front of the body. This black belt connects you to the power of your base part, then you move up.

Don Ivan: It’s important that you can tune with this black energy [willka]. It’s the potential state of the absolute absorption of reality—receiving everything directly inside. But this energy can be found outside, too.

Joan: So, according to this process, is that why once you, don Juan, told me that willka is of nature but not in nature? Because we create it?

New Apu wilkanusta VeronicaDon Juan: In a certain way it a phenomenon, an emergence of. There are things that are going to manifest that are not already here. Energies can change and emerge. One of these processes is the emergence of willka inside human beings. But willka as sacred energy is found, for example, in some of the sanctuaries. You can make a connection to a waka [sacred object or place, including the sacred sanctuaries] that is associated with willka and pull it to you, and that will help awaken you. As examples, Waqay Willka [an apu] or Willka Ñust’a [Urubamba/Vilcanota river, also called the Willka Mayu], or more specifically in the left side of the path there is Willka Uta, an apu of the left side that is in the south of Peru. This is the House of Willka, an apu in the south of Peru. [Uta means “house” in Aymara.]

I like to ground these things. So, let us ground this speculation, because the Andean spiritual tradition is always grounded. I talked with a friend, another anthropologist, (Jean-Jacques Decoster, a professor at the university in Cusco) and he has a very interesting statement on the tradition: he says that the Andean tradition is geodesic. He told me about his theory of Andean geodesic spirituality. By this he means that for the Andean people the spiritual power is always grounded in a specific place on the surface of the earth.

If you take a look at the Hatun Karpay Lloq’e of don Melchor Desa, [a formal cycle of rituals and energy work], one of the places we work is Machu Picchu, which is the most sophisticated creation of Pachakuti Inka. It is surrounded by the Willka Ñust’a, the sacred river [known variously as the Urubamba, Vilcanota, and Willka Mayu]. If you follow the course of the river upstream and to the south, you will reach La Raya, which is the point of the watershed between the sacred valley and Lake Titikaka. To the east of the watershed and just above it is the snow-capped mountain Willka Ñust’a, from where the river of the same name goes to Cusco and another river called Pukara is born and goes to Lake Titicaca, making a connection with this. Pucara means “fortress” but this is not a fortress with walls. It is a fortress of energy, a source of power! It is a source of power creating protection around you. If you continue along the shore of the lake towards the south, near the border with Bolivia, you will find the sacred place called Willka Uta, which in Aymara means the house or abode of willka, which is the last sacred place in the southern direction of the Don Melchor ritual itinerary.

In this place there is a vertical rock, whose surface has been carved in a flat square canvas of about four meters on a Lord of the Staffsside, and on the center of the lower side of the square, the negative silhouette of a head that emerges from the ground has been sculpted and the two vertical sides are flanked by cylindrical cavities that resemble two rods, also negative. It is one of the largest representations of the Andean sacred character known as The Lord of the Rods, whose head emerges from the earth [also called the Lord of the Staffs].

So there is a connection between the House of Willka [Apu Willka Uta]and the original image of God, which is represented by the carving of the Lord of the Rods. This is related to the Inkas but also with the more ancient civilization of Tiahuanaco, in the south of Peru.

Joan: So, you are saying that really the whole Inka empire—no, not just the empire, the whole civilization—was connected and surrounded by willka, by this creative and protective energy—and still is!

Don Juan: Yes. For the Inkas, the name of the Creator God is Wiraqocha. The Lord of the Rods in the tradition of Tiahuanaco is called Wiraqocha. But there is a more ancient name for God in the Tiahuanaco civilization and that is Thunupa.

Also at Titicaca Lake, Thunupa created Inkari and Qollari [also called Manqo Capac and Mama Oqllo]. But Thunupa is said to have travelled from Titicaca Lake to Cuzco. He went many other places, and he was seen as a white man with a beard who was dressed all in white. He eventually disappeared, his whereabouts unknown. But the point is that from this geodesic point of view, everything is sacred  and is related with the surface of the earth. And what is the surface of the earth? It’s the meeting of the power of Wiraqocha and Pachamama [the cosmic and earthly], the point of creation on the surface of the earth [which is what willka is].

Don Ivan: I am thinking of the relationship between us and the earth, with places of power and so on. For me, this is our projection, as those places are going to stimulate some part of our psyche. They also will be symbols, many timesFran another despacho archetypal structures from the outside that represent the energies inside, or that are projected from inside yourself to the outside. And also, with the work that we do with our body and bubble [poq’po]—all of the energies we create can be thought of as inner projections of yourself outwardly. In a certain way what happens is that we somatize certain aspects of our mind on our body. Those are our ñawis: your psyche, your psychic self, creates a universe from within your body. Parts of it will represent aspects of your mind. There may also be links to physical parts of our brain, of our neurological system, so it’s a whole. You are working with those power places that are related with those energies like willka, and you also at some level may be working with energies that are inside yourself and projected outward onto the place. But you are actually dealing with your inner world and energy. It’s like a big despacho, the world is like a big despacho, and you are relating with the parts and adjusting them, and these energies are going to organize the self.

Joan: This is such a beautiful interpretation and translation of the tradition, one from the fourth-level view. You need to write this down—to include this in the book you are writing to preserve it!

Don Juan: Do you know—this is your fault! We are writing a book with your help, and we are thinking and putting together things. The process with you is reminding us of things. We are generating an overview that was not there for us five or six years ago.

Joan: And I, too, am thinking in new ways and learning so much in the process of these discussions. You have no idea! So, thank you. And I am sure my blog readers thank you, too.

Interview about Willka: Part I

In this long discussion with don Juan Nuñez del Prado and his son don Ivan, we discuss willka in great detail. I have broken the discussion into a two-part interview, with this first part addressing willka more generally and then taking a deeper dive in the second part of the interview, which I will post in about a month. I have added explanations, context, and definitions when necessary in square brackets.

Joan: Willka is so central to us, especially since it runs down our spines and creates the yana chunpi. It’s black light energy, and it is said to be the most sacred and most powerful energy. In one of our previous conversations, you said that willka and indeed human energy are different from kawsay. That’s confusing to me, since everything is kawsay.

Don Juan: Human energy is a kind of living energy. A specific kind. Just like the sun is different from the moon, human energy is different from both kawsay and willka. Yes, kawsay is everything, but human energy is just one kind of Illustration of woman and man with aura, chakras and healing energykawsay. This is the runa kawsay pacha, the world of human living energy. [Runa means people or human being.] In that term, human energy is emphasized as a specific part of the kawsay pacha—the energy specifically related with humans.

Don Ivan: Kawsay is the energy of everything. And human energy is just part of that. It’s one frequency or vibration of kawsay.

Don Juan: Now, the willka—how does the willka energy emerge? It is not naturally in your siki ñawi. It is created when, for example during the Chunpi Away karpay [karpay for weaving the chunpis, or energetic belts], when you pull down the gold and silver cosmic energy along your spine and then you pull up the green earth energy, and you merge them. Together they form willka inside the human body. The whole process is happening inside the human bubble [poq’po]. This is the condition of the emergence of willka, I think. You must realize that this is not something that was explicitly explained by the masters.  

Joan: Ok, and when we talk about the progression of energy—munay, hampi munay,  willka, tawantin—willka is high in the hierarchy.

Don Juan: Hampi munay is close to munay and not yet willka. Willka is the full development of munay.

Joan: What is the difference in quality or effect, if any, between touching munay or hampi munay energy versus touching willka energy?

Don Juan: Hampi munay, which is healing love, is very kind. It’s a tender energy. Willka is very raw, amazingly strong. When you perceive willka, how it moves, you can be smashed! This is the feeling: that there is a raw power sleeping there, that can be awakened in willka. This is my experience. Objectively, we don’t know. This is not something the masters taught, so I am speculating from my subjective experience. The truth is that I don’t know. We have to grasp its meaning, how to work with it, because the masters didn’t teach about it. We have our own experience with it, and we can make assumptions based on our thinking deeply about it. It may be that the mastery of using the willka relates to the fifth level. But we don’t know about the fifth level, because it has not manifested yet.

Joan: You did tell me about one way of working with willka energy, which I won’t mention publicly in case someone tries it, and it was overpowering, it was beyond your ability to handle. It felt like the energy of a steam locomotive, really overpowering. Maybe that’s what the fifth-level energy is like.

Don Juan: When you touch willka, you can feel that force. To drive that energy is probably like learning to how to drive a locomotive! It is something powerful and complex, and you have to be able to handle a huge power. Willka in a certain way is the power of life and death.

Joan: Well. I certainly want to hear more about that!

Don Ivan: Let’s talk about how create willka in our exercises, in our work on the path. It’s a connection of the energy of the earth, which we say is green living energy, and cosmic energy, which is the gold and silver energy you pull down during the Chunpi Away karpay. You merge them inside of yourself. So, let’s ask: What is the energy of the earth? It’s all the power of the material, the power of material things, places, nature. What is the cosmic energy? It’s when we bring down the power of God—it’s like the drink of life. It’s like a trigger of life.

Joan: Creator energy.

Don Ivan: Yes, the Creator is the one who can take matter as it is and make it into a living thing or being. Through the grace of God there is life. So, what you are building with willka, bringing down the cosmic energy into the energy of matter, of the earth, is like using the energy of creation. This is the contact between the two: of the greatest spirit of God with matter. When you create willka you are doing that under the power of your will, by choice. You have that ability! It’s like making this quality of energy in a laboratory! But it doesn’t mean we are the only ones who can do that. Willka is everywhere. It is reality! Many times when we are working with energy, for example when we make hampi munay in the Hampi Munay Muyu practice in our chaupi work, people report seeing the black light! We make hampi munay by bringing down the cosmic energy and pulling up earth energy and running it through ourselves. Similar to how we create willka, and people see the black light sometimes!

Our master said the willka power can take you to the fifth level. That’s because this kind of energy is healing. It is related to munay, because in the Hampi Munay Muyu practice you are choosing, under your will, to take energy in the direction of healing power. This again is the recognition of the creative power. The power of willka can reset your body in a way that you can create yourself again, be healthy again, heal what needs healing at any level of the self.

Joan: The willka energy—we are so full of it! It is the energy of the entire yana chunpi, and in the Master Class we fill our Inka Seed with willka and then imprint that willka energy in all the interior pachas and ñawis. It’s prominent in so much of our work. So, is that like infusing the creative potential throughout our poq’po and body, and directing it toward our growth, our potential enlightenment?

Don Ivan: Yes, it’s like tuning yourself with willka.

Joan: So through willka, we are getting a huge input of creative, evolutionary energy within the self.

Don Ivan: Yes, and in the training many times you will find that you have to be able to tune yourself with something in order to be to keep it. You tune with an energy for a moment, then you relax and that connection goes away. To be able to hold it, to keep the connection in place, to stay at that frequency, that’s the very realization of the fifth level! Again, the masters did not teach this, but we have some experience with working with willka. It is an energy of the lowest frequency but very high power. You shouldn’t take it for granted or play around with it. It is serious. A power that you cannot handle might hurt you or even kill you if you cannot tune and use it. But this is speculation.

Joan: It’s important that people reading this make the distinction between what we know, or what the masters taught, and what we speculate about, so thank you for continually pointing that out. It certainly is very interesting speculation! I think we have enough to do with working with the willka we have after weaving the chunpis. With this form of willka alone we can re-create or reset ourselves, advance our conscious evolution. We will leave working with willka in other ways to the masters . . .